bonzelite

the argument that "Nissan lies" is so old and tired Will it ever go away? There is no value in lying and cheating to arrive at fake lap times. It proves nothing to anyone.

Nissan has gone out of their way to document the laps. People who are holding out for the pro-cheating argument are typically jealous and are often Corvette fan boys.

wrandall

If you are replying to me, why would I be jealous of anything? I didn't engineer the Corvette. If they did run a lap quicker than a Z06, that's fine with me. Whoop di doo. I still prefer a Z06. If I wanted a GTR, I would buy one.

And you say 'are typically jealous and are often Corvette fan boys'. How many pro-cheating people did you survey? I somehow think your analysis is not based on hard facts, but on subjective observation.

By the way, you drive a Goat.

bonzelite

dunno you tell me why most flack the gtr community gets is from GM people. you tell me, brother. you tell me. I've been at this for years and I've just nearly seen it all. I can write a book on internet car forum culture.

yes, long live the GTO and GM. I'm not partial to either make, Nissan or GM; I own a car from each maker. Each has it's pros and cons. I'm not entirely in love with the R35. It has it's shortcomings and things about I'd rather it not have. I don't much care for paddle shifters to be honest. I think they're borderline ghey. But the argument that Nissan is a liar is overdue to be taken out with last years' trash.

c'mon, brother.

nastinupe1

This is just crazy. What's all the fuss about? Who really cares what numbers the ZR1, Z06, GTR, or any other car puts up?

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. I could take a Yugo that I bought off of craigslist for $700.00 and spend $70,000 on mods and have it kill basically every car this side of an Enzo.

But that's not why we buy cars is it? I bought a 2006 C4S with "only" 355 hp for $70,000 last year. Sure I can get "killed" but a bunch of cars that cost much less, but I didn't buy my car to paper race, I bought it to enjoy.

Besides, when I go to the mountains to enjoy the drive, I don't time myself, my enjoyment comes from the response of the car to the road. That's why driving a 160 hp Miata on a curvy/ hilly road is so much fun. It's not the speed, but the response that gives you the ultimate driving experience.

You guys can go on and argue about 1/4 miles times and ring times, but who cares? Just buy your ride and drive it and post about the love. I'm a automotive fanboy. I have no "loyalty" to any particular make or model. If it's a cool car, then I respect it. Point blank period. And the Z06, ZR1, and GTR all get much respect in my book.

Dopplekuplung

Doubt it but who cares. The ZR1 has 640-hp and weights at least 500lbs less...I'd hope it was faster. The real question on my mind is why's a V8-powered M3 so damn slow?

Racer M

Here is my comparison:

Corvette ZR1: $115,000 vs Nissan Skyline GTR: $80,770

Power: 6.2L V8, 638bhp, 604 torque vs 3.8L V6, 473bhp, 430 torque

Weight: 3352 lbs vs 3800 lbs

P/W ratio: 5.2 lbs per hp vs 8.0 lbs per hp

NURBURGRING LAP: 7:26.4 vs 7:26.7

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times


***CONCLUSION: The ZR1 has a 35% better power to weight ratio than the GTR, its engine size is 1.5 times the size of the GTR, and it costs $35,000 more than the GTR, but on the best race track in the world for comparing supercars the ZR1 can only manage to beat the GTR by .03 seconds, which on a 7:26 lap time, in the racing world, is hardly significant. To say that the ZR1 "trumps" the GTR in this comparison would be like saying Apollo Creed whooped the crap out of Rocky Balboa when they both fell down in the 12th Round and Rocky managed to get to his feet first before they were both out for the count. One man barely won that fight by the skin of his teeth... yes there is a winner here, but realize the margin of victory is so miniscule its hard to even acknowledge it.

In my opinion it is foolish to consider the ZR1 a better sports car, when you can clearly see that it has an extreme advantage over the GTR, yet it hardly can out-perform it. This is of course due to the fact that all corvettes, including the ZR1 put power to the ground terribly, and come with an awful gearbox that is very frustrating to operate even for a professional driver. In my opinion, the fact that the GTR can hang with a car that weighs hundreds of pounds less, and has 165 more horsepower makes the GTR the clear winner from a technology standpoint. And if you took the $35k price difference, and added this amount of money to the GTR in performance mods it would smoke the ZR1 so bad it wouldn't even be a race.

I would also like to add that Corvette hasn't changed their body style significantly in like 10 years, the interior is a joke, namely the horrible seats that come with them, seat and steering position, etc. It is a burnout machine, and 90% of the people who will own a ZR1 would lose a race (drag or track) to a GTR in lack of skill it takes to handle a RWD car with 600+ HP.

I rest my case.

Dopplekuplung

That's all true but the 'Vette was piloted by an amateur, no?

Then there's the fact that there's a lot more to sportscar ownership than outright performance. A Miata is a fun sportscar but can be out dragged by a V6 Camry.

That being said the 'rush' of the 'Vettes straight line acceleration is undeniably superior (or at least I imagine it would be). And lets not forget the sound.

I haven't driven the ZR-1 but I've driven Z06s and the GT-R extensively on road and track. There's no question in my mind that the GT-R is a superior machine in many regards. It's just soooo capable. It's also confidence-inspiring, reliable and dare I say practical.

And maybe it's that last point that will forever keep the GT-R from being considered a true supercar by many enthuisasts...it's too good at doing non-performance stuff. Supercars are flawed in many regards and they are always two-seaters with the exception of the McLaren F1. Audi RS6? Blindingly fast. Not a supercar. Know what I mean?

I'm more inclined to compare the GT-R to the M6, M3, CLK63 Black. I know it's faster than all of them but that's just the way my enthusiast brain is wired...

And that in no way should take way from the GT-R. I'd be proud to own one.

Racer M

The driver of the ZR1 was Jim Mero, a GM engineer and test driver who has done over 1200 laps on the ring. Is he Michael Schummacher, no... But hardly an ammetuer driver. Suzuki, who piloted the GTR isn't Kimi Raikkonen by any means either but both drivers are capable to pilot each car to within very close to it's capabilities. What needs to be done is to have a current professional sports car driver drive both cars on a good test track like Buttonwillow on the exact same type of tires. Until then all comparisons are flawed to some point.

With that being said, if anyone wants to donate their ZR1 for the day I would be happy to arrange that test.

Dopplekuplung

Fair enough. I don't really understand how the whole GT-R vs ZR1 thing got started. Like I said...seems like an unlikely comparo to me.

You know what would be fun...if Mero and Suzuki went to the ring on the same day and did laps in both cars and then switched. To me this is a friendly rivalry and pushes car companies to develop even better and more exciting cars.

Racer M

I would rather get Bill Auberlen to drive both cars at Buttonwillow on the full configuration back to back on the same type of tires and see which car ends up faster. I was his teammate in GrandAm for 4 years and I don't know anyone that can drive a car better. If we could get a ZR1 owner to bring their car to the track, I would bring my GTR and him and we could probably arrange for a magazine to cover it as well.