Porsche Accuses Nissan Of Cheating At Nurburgring
09-30-2008, 09:22 PM
#11
GTR Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 77
Wel this move puts nissan on the hot seat. If they cant produce a similar time, they will be blasted. If they can, they can shove it in porsches face. If nissan fails to respond, most will assume it was a ringer.
What would be cool if they both put thier best drivers in the cars and go head to head. That would be awesome. or top 3 drivers vs top 3. It would be great exposure for both companies, but one would walk away with egg on its face.
in my opinion, If prosche was able to replicate the time, they would not have made an issue out of it.
What would be cool if they both put thier best drivers in the cars and go head to head. That would be awesome. or top 3 drivers vs top 3. It would be great exposure for both companies, but one would walk away with egg on its face.
in my opinion, If prosche was able to replicate the time, they would not have made an issue out of it.
09-30-2008, 09:30 PM
#12
GTR Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 77
I have to agree with this one. At over $20k more than a GTR and coming out AFTER the GTR it had better beat it.
09-30-2008, 09:35 PM
#13
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 77
are you guys really on the same page here?
plus.... if you wanna get really picky, wasnt there a thread around here showing the Z06 destroying a GTR repeatedly?
"Fanboyism" is exactly the vibe im getting from this argument.
09-30-2008, 09:38 PM
#14
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 77
Lets Compare stats shall we...
Porsche GT2
530 hp
505lbs of torque
lateral 1.1g's
3200lbs.
Nissan GTR
480 hp
430ft torque
Lateral .98g's
3836lbs.
Care to share your opinion on WHY the GTR can beat the GT2 around a track?
seriously, look at the difference. just look. the GTR is OUTCLASSED.
Numbers dont lie. people do. esp. people looking to make a name for themselves.
Porsche has already cemented themselves as perhaps the number 1 engineering company of all time. Nissan has no such legacy.
Porsche GT2
530 hp
505lbs of torque
lateral 1.1g's
3200lbs.
Nissan GTR
480 hp
430ft torque
Lateral .98g's
3836lbs.
Care to share your opinion on WHY the GTR can beat the GT2 around a track?
seriously, look at the difference. just look. the GTR is OUTCLASSED.
Numbers dont lie. people do. esp. people looking to make a name for themselves.
Porsche has already cemented themselves as perhaps the number 1 engineering company of all time. Nissan has no such legacy.
10-01-2008, 06:56 AM
#15
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9
regardless of all the discussion,
I think the only way this would be settled is if nissan took a US spec GT-R and drove the Nurburgring from a standing start like everyone else.
Then we could get an accurate time to compare to everything else.....fairly.
Until they do that...........it doesn't matter if they run a 6:30 on the ring........it's not a fair comparison when you change the tires, tune, and start from 100mph.
I think the only way this would be settled is if nissan took a US spec GT-R and drove the Nurburgring from a standing start like everyone else.
Then we could get an accurate time to compare to everything else.....fairly.
Until they do that...........it doesn't matter if they run a 6:30 on the ring........it's not a fair comparison when you change the tires, tune, and start from 100mph.
10-01-2008, 08:07 AM
#16
GTR Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 77
Lets Compare stats shall we...
Porsche GT2
530 hp
505lbs of torque
lateral 1.1g's
3200lbs.
Nissan GTR
480 hp
430ft torque
Lateral .98g's
3836lbs.
Care to share your opinion on WHY Nissan thinks they can lie to the world without their superiors pulling a BS card?
seriously, look at the difference. just look. the GTR is OUTCLASSED.
Porsche GT2
530 hp
505lbs of torque
lateral 1.1g's
3200lbs.
Nissan GTR
480 hp
430ft torque
Lateral .98g's
3836lbs.
Care to share your opinion on WHY Nissan thinks they can lie to the world without their superiors pulling a BS card?
seriously, look at the difference. just look. the GTR is OUTCLASSED.
I am a member at the largest Corvette forum out there (I’ll let you guess which one) and from what I”ve seen, its usually the Corvette guys that are bitter that a car can challenge its status as the “best bang for the buck”. From my experience you don't see GTR guys trolling the COrvette forums (they do from time to time but pale in comparison to how often Corvette guys does it). Most GTR guys have respect for the Z06 and its accomplishments.
I pointed out to numerous test done by many automotive journalist declaring the GTR the victor against the Turbo. These are INDEPENDENT test done. And all you can do to defend the Z06 was to say “if you wanna get really picky, wasnt there a thread around here showing the Z06 destroying a GTR repeatedly?”.
Numbers don’t lie. But doesn’t tell the whole story either. You bought the Z06 issue into this. Stay on topic.
10-01-2008, 08:17 AM
#17
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 77
So are you agreeing that it should be compared to the Z06, or that im a fanboy for suggesting that the GTR cant do what nissan said it could do. Its not possible.
Im not talking about comparison tests, but if you really wanted to id point out that the GTR lost to both the R8, and the M3.
The GTR is an amazing car. its probaly the best car for the money in the world.
But if porsche went that far out of the way to prove that they didnt make that time with stock parts, and still came out and made it public, then Nissan sure as hell didnt. Porsche wouldnt risk their reputations like that.
10-01-2008, 09:01 AM
#18
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 77
You initially said, “ZR1 beat the GTR by how much”, you lost all credibility with this statement. My response to that was of course the ZR-1 should beat it as it came out after the GTR was released and price at over $100k. I own a Z06 and am very proud of it. I just know when to give a car credit when it deserves it. If you want a fair comparison, do a V-spec vs ZR-1.
I am a member at the largest Corvette forum out there (I’ll let you guess which one) and from what I”ve seen, its usually the Corvette guys that are bitter that a car can challenge its status as the “best bang for the buck”. From my experience you don't see GTR guys trolling the COrvette forums (they do from time to time but pale in comparison to how often Corvette guys does it). Most GTR guys have respect for the Z06 and its accomplishments.
I pointed out to numerous test done by many automotive journalist declaring the GTR the victor against the Turbo. These are INDEPENDENT test done. And all you can do to defend the Z06 was to say “if you wanna get really picky, wasnt there a thread around here showing the Z06 destroying a GTR repeatedly?”.
Numbers don’t lie. But doesn’t tell the whole story either. You bought the Z06 issue into this. Stay on topic.
I am a member at the largest Corvette forum out there (I’ll let you guess which one) and from what I”ve seen, its usually the Corvette guys that are bitter that a car can challenge its status as the “best bang for the buck”. From my experience you don't see GTR guys trolling the COrvette forums (they do from time to time but pale in comparison to how often Corvette guys does it). Most GTR guys have respect for the Z06 and its accomplishments.
I pointed out to numerous test done by many automotive journalist declaring the GTR the victor against the Turbo. These are INDEPENDENT test done. And all you can do to defend the Z06 was to say “if you wanna get really picky, wasnt there a thread around here showing the Z06 destroying a GTR repeatedly?”.
Numbers don’t lie. But doesn’t tell the whole story either. You bought the Z06 issue into this. Stay on topic.
I adressed the Z06 AFTER the ZR1 and the GT2.
so ill adress you now in the order i brought them up.
A. The ZR1 should be compared to the V spec i agree. (even though the V spec came out at almost 20k OVER the ZR1....??) So lets come back to this one...
B. The GT2. This super Porsche is better than the GTR in every performance category. All of them. Porsche builds some of the best cars on the planet. The performance tests where the Nissan beat better cars like the turbo (if you'd look) were done using pre-US pro spec cars. Still think Nissan didnt use ringers?
C. The Z06. Wait... wasnt the GTR supposed to do 0-60 in 3.2?? and wasnt it supposed to be the easiest car to launch? then how would the Z06 which does 0-60 in 3.7 have a chance?
Well ill leave that to your imagination. But after multiple video's come out showing the Z06 pulling on the GTR im pulling the BS card just as any logical person should.
Ok so lets review.
The number one Engineering company in the world takes a car which is said to do things that numbers say it cant do , test it, and come out with predictable results. Not the "Shocking" results that people have decided are true. This basically confirms the rumors that Nissan used ringers. When something seems too good to be true. it is.
So back to the ZR1 vs. the GTR-V... well now i dont belive anything Nissan has done. The ZR1 was supposedly 2 seconds slower than the GTR-V.... well staying consistant with the forumula that Porsche set for the GTR (25 seconds slower than Nissan claimed) than... the ZR1 would have destroyed the GTR-V.
10-01-2008, 09:30 AM
#19
GTR Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 77
I adressed the Z06 AFTER the ZR1 and the GT2.
so ill adress you now in the order i brought them up.
A. The ZR1 should be compared to the V spec i agree. (even though the V spec came out at almost 20k OVER the ZR1....??) So lets come back to this one...
B. The GT2. This super Porsche is better than the GTR in every performance category. All of them. Porsche builds some of the best cars on the planet. The performance tests where the Nissan beat better cars like the turbo (if you'd look) were done using pre-US pro spec cars. Still think Nissan didnt use ringers?
C. The Z06. Wait... wasnt the GTR supposed to do 0-60 in 3.2?? and wasnt it supposed to be the easiest car to launch? then how would the Z06 which does 0-60 in 3.7 have a chance?
Well ill leave that to your imagination. But after multiple video's come out showing the Z06 pulling on the GTR im pulling the BS card just as any logical person should.
Ok so lets review.
The number one Engineering company in the world takes a car which is said to do things that numbers say it cant do , test it, and come out with predictable results. Not the "Shocking" results that people have decided are true. This basically confirms the rumors that Nissan used ringers. When something seems too good to be true. it is.
So back to the ZR1 vs. the GTR-V... well now i dont belive anything Nissan has done. The ZR1 was supposedly 2 seconds slower than the GTR-V.... well staying consistant with the forumula that Porsche set for the GTR (25 seconds slower than Nissan claimed) than... the ZR1 would have destroyed the GTR-V.
so ill adress you now in the order i brought them up.
A. The ZR1 should be compared to the V spec i agree. (even though the V spec came out at almost 20k OVER the ZR1....??) So lets come back to this one...
B. The GT2. This super Porsche is better than the GTR in every performance category. All of them. Porsche builds some of the best cars on the planet. The performance tests where the Nissan beat better cars like the turbo (if you'd look) were done using pre-US pro spec cars. Still think Nissan didnt use ringers?
C. The Z06. Wait... wasnt the GTR supposed to do 0-60 in 3.2?? and wasnt it supposed to be the easiest car to launch? then how would the Z06 which does 0-60 in 3.7 have a chance?
Well ill leave that to your imagination. But after multiple video's come out showing the Z06 pulling on the GTR im pulling the BS card just as any logical person should.
Ok so lets review.
The number one Engineering company in the world takes a car which is said to do things that numbers say it cant do , test it, and come out with predictable results. Not the "Shocking" results that people have decided are true. This basically confirms the rumors that Nissan used ringers. When something seems too good to be true. it is.
So back to the ZR1 vs. the GTR-V... well now i dont belive anything Nissan has done. The ZR1 was supposedly 2 seconds slower than the GTR-V.... well staying consistant with the forumula that Porsche set for the GTR (25 seconds slower than Nissan claimed) than... the ZR1 would have destroyed the GTR-V.
A. We'll agree with this one except for one thing: Pricing has NOT been announced for the V-spec whereas it HAS for the ZR-1 so using the $20k over doesn't hold as its just an assumption on the cost of the V-spec.
B. Last time I checked, Nissan DID NOT use the GT2 as a benchmark vehicle. Of course the GT2 is a better vehicle. At the HUGE price difference it had better be. And no, the more recent test done in the past couple months were using production vehicle (I can cite multiple tests if you'd like that was done recently on a production vehicle). And no one is denying Porsche builds fantastic vehicles. Just make sure your comparing apples to apples. You mentioned the car was "outclass". Do you really think the people who could afford the GTR can't afford a 911 Turbo (especially those that are paying over MSRP)? I personally care more about what the car is capable of rather than who makes it.
C. There has been descrepencies between the 1/4 times and 0-60 times as some used the LC and some didn't. Especially those press vehicles which Nissan said was still going through software updates. I really don't see where your trying to get at here.
Why I don't dispute that the Z06 can pull on a GTR after hitting the triple digits (hey, I drive one remember?), the GTR was never marketed as a 1/4 beast. If you think about it, most JDM sportscar/supercar (however you want to call it) never concerned themselves with 1/4 times. You remember the stereotype about American cars builders that they only care about going straight? Gee, I wonder how that came to be. (I am NOT saying the Z06/Zr1 can't take the turns but merely pointing out that going straight wasn't the number priority for Nissan when they built the car).The Nissan was BUILT to take the corners.
Last edited by ultima00; 10-01-2008 at 09:42 AM.
10-01-2008, 09:35 AM
#20
GTR Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 77
So are you agreeing that it should be compared to the Z06, or that im a fanboy for suggesting that the GTR cant do what nissan said it could do. Its not possible.
Im not talking about comparison tests, but if you really wanted to id point out that the GTR lost to both the R8, and the M3.
The GTR is an amazing car. its probaly the best car for the money in the world.
But if porsche went that far out of the way to prove that they didnt make that time with stock parts, and still came out and made it public, then Nissan sure as hell didnt. Porsche wouldnt risk their reputations like that.
Im not talking about comparison tests, but if you really wanted to id point out that the GTR lost to both the R8, and the M3.
The GTR is an amazing car. its probaly the best car for the money in the world.
But if porsche went that far out of the way to prove that they didnt make that time with stock parts, and still came out and made it public, then Nissan sure as hell didnt. Porsche wouldnt risk their reputations like that.
Read more carefully. This was your original statement:
"So.... The ZR1 beat the GTR by how much now?"
Catapult merely changed the ZR1 to Z06 to say that you should be comparing apples to apples. I quoted what he says so it'd showed the Z06 beat the GTR by how much.
Are you referring to that Car and Driver test that had the M3 beat the GTR AND 911 Turbo (funny how you didn't mentioned this part); this test was heavily criticized as the only reason it won was because it had more space and was daily drivable...C&D forgot that these two cars was built for one purpose.
And Camaro, why do you dislike the GTR so much anyway. You started out here as being very open-minded. And no, I never said you were a fanboy but you are accusing everyone here of being one.
Last edited by ultima00; 10-01-2008 at 09:40 AM.